Standard of Truth Podcast – “Mailbag: Seer Stones, Witnesses, and Translation”
Introduction
The episode discusses questions from listeners, including a doctrinal/historical question: Did Joseph Smith use a seer stone as well as the Urim and Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon?
This question has become increasingly common, and in recent years, some members of the Church have begun to reject the idea that Joseph Smith ever used a seer stone or placed one in a hat, despite the Church’s official position and extensive historical documentation.
The hosts explain that this rejection sometimes comes from members who feel threatened when new historical information differs from what they previously believed. Others react strongly because they assume that newer Church history resources—such as the Joseph Smith Papers or Gospel Topics Essays—represent “academic corruption” or unfaithful scholarship.
The Growing Movement Rejecting Seer Stones
In the last decade, a small but vocal movement has insisted:
Joseph Smith never used a seer stone.
Joseph never placed any stone in a hat.
Only enemies of the Church made such claims.
Modern Church historians are “deceiving” Church leaders.
This movement has produced:
Self-published books
YouTube channels
Blogs
Fireside confrontations
None of these books are peer-reviewed or published by reputable academic presses. The hosts explain why peer review matters: it ensures other experts have evaluated the sources and arguments.
The key problem is that these authors often ignore or exclude abundant historical sources written by Joseph Smith’s closest associates.
A Fireside Conversation Illustrating the Issue
The episode recounts an extended discussion with a faithful Church member who confronted the speaker at a fireside. She had read a book claiming:
No witness ever said Joseph used a seer stone.
The Church is wrong when it teaches that Joseph used a seer stone.
Modern leaders are being deceived by academics.
She believed the speaker was an apostate for teaching what the Church now teaches.
The hosts emphasize that this is not an isolated experience—members across the Church have begun reacting this way.
Primary Sources: What the Witnesses Actually Said
Contrary to the claim that “none of the witnesses ever said it,” all major firsthand witnesses describe Joseph using a seer stone in a hat.
4.1 Emma Smith
Emma Smith explicitly stated:
“He sat with his face buried in the hat with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour… with nothing between us.”
She also explained in another letter that:
The first portion (the lost 116 pages) was translated using the Nephite interpreters (Urim and Thummim).
After the loss, Joseph used a different small stone, dark in color.
4.2 Martin Harris
Martin Harris gave numerous statements describing:
Joseph placing a stone in a hat
Reading words that appeared
The hat blocking out external light
One late interview published in the Deseret News relates Martin’s account of switching the real stone with a look-alike stone from a river to test Joseph. Joseph was unable to continue translating, which Martin took as evidence of divine power.
This account was published openly by the Church’s own newspaper.
4.3 David Whitmer
David Whitmer repeated the same description in multiple interviews across decades:
A single seer stone placed in a hat
Words appearing on the stone
4.4 Oliver Cowdery
Although Oliver was usually discreet, one of his quoted statements also aligns with the other witnesses, confirming Joseph’s use of seer stones.
4.5 Joseph Knight Sr.
Joseph Knight, a loyal lifelong friend of Joseph, described:
Joseph placing a stone in a hat
Words appearing on the stone
The translation proceeding line by line
Knight had no motive to lie, and his account was private family history, not a public defense.
4.6 Brigham Young
Brigham Young confirmed:
Joseph possessed more than one seer stone
Joseph found one while digging a well
Joseph used seer stones as part of translation and revelation
4.7 Wilford Woodruff
Wilford Woodruff recorded several important entries:
He personally held and saw Joseph’s seer stone.
He said Joseph had found it “some 30 feet under the earth.”
He consecrated Joseph’s seer stone on the altar of the Manti Temple.
This alone refutes any claim that “no prophet ever said Joseph had a seer stone.”
Confronting the Misconceptions
At the fireside, when shown:
The Church’s Gospel Topics essay
President Nelson’s video explaining seer stones
Brigham Young’s statements
Wilford Woodruff’s journal entries
…the individual was stunned because she had believed the opposite with full certainty.
Her reaction demonstrates the danger: When someone elevates their own belief above prophetic teaching, they risk stepping onto the path of apostasy.
Why Some Members Reject These Sources
Common reasons include:
Believing all such sources are “anti-Mormon,” even when written by faithful prophets and eyewitnesses.
Viewing modern Church history efforts as “academic corruption.”
Feeling betrayed by learning something new later in life.
Misunderstanding that the Urim and Thummim are also “seer stones” according to Joseph Smith’s own definitions.
Some members fear that acknowledging seer stones might weaken testimony—but suppressing historical truth only causes greater harm.
The Church’s Official Position
The hosts list numerous official Church sources stating clearly that Joseph used:
Both the Nephite interpreters (Urim and Thummim)
And a separate personal seer stone
These include:
Gospel Topics Essay: “Book of Mormon Translation”
President Russell M. Nelson video (Harmony, PA)
President Uchtdorf’s Facebook post
Ensign article “A Treasured Testament”
Seminary and Institute manuals
Come, Follow Me manuals (Book of Mormon, D&C)
Foundations of the Restoration course materials
Church Educational System teacher manuals
These official statements are uniform, consistent, and repeated across multiple years.
Why Didn’t We Hear This Before?
The hosts explain:
The Church is now investing more effort into transparency and historical accuracy than at any point in its history.
Prior generations had fewer resources and little access to primary documents.
The Joseph Smith Papers, digitization of journals, and new curriculum have made these sources widely available.
Future generations will know this history from the beginning.
The Real Issue: Following the Prophet
The hosts emphasize:
It’s acceptable to say “I didn’t know that.”
It’s acceptable to say “I don’t understand that yet.”
But it is not acceptable to say:
“The prophet is deceived because he disagrees with me.”
A person who insists their personal belief overrides prophetic teaching is not on safe ground.
Conclusion
The historical record overwhelmingly confirms:
Joseph Smith used multiple seer stones.
One was used frequently during the Book of Mormon translation.
He placed the stone in a hat to block external light.
Every major witness testified to this.
Multiple prophets and Church publications affirm it.
The Book of Mormon is still the word of God, and the method of translation does not diminish its divine origin.
Members should be wary of:
Individuals urging anger or distrust over historical details the Church itself teaches
Unpublished or self-published works written without scholarly review
Any claim that Church leaders are deceived for teaching the Church’s own position
Faith requires humility, patience, and sustaining the living prophet.
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